What a thrill meeting and speaking with Rebecca Jarvis, ABC News Chief business, economics, and technology correspondent, and of course, host of the Drop Out, now in its' second season: Elizabeth Holmes on trial.

We learned A LOT about NXIVM last year. But we barely scratched the surface. My guest today, reporter and author, Sarah Berman, has covered NXIVM extensively for years — first at VICE, and most recently, in her new book, DON'T CALL IT A CULT. This book is THE place to get the whole story of how NXIVM came to be and ALL the players within. Sarah and I get into all the details including the branding, the coercion and trafficking, as well as getting comfortable with the inconceivable.I promise you will learn something ( if not many things) you didn't know about NXIVM before and I think you will appreciate Sarah's thoughtful coverage as much as I do.

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